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Raw Water Pump Is Leaking. $uper Expen$ive. Any Help On Rebuilt Units?
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Meridian Yacht Discussion Forum
  -> Repairs & Maintenance
    -> Raw Water Pump Is Leaking. $uper Expen$ive. Any Help On Rebuilt Units?
Refuge V
Posted 1/7/2010 12:28 PM (#21600 - in reply to #21578)
Subject: RE: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

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Home Port: Montreal, Canada
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Barbie - 1/6/2010 11:23 AM
We're buying a new pump for from JobbersInc.com $700. Then my captain will swap it out himself. Then we'll send in our leaking pump to get rebuilt for $400, and keep it as a spare for when the starboard pump goes out.

Now here is the tricky part... This weekend is our monthly regatta, and we need to motor about 12 miles to our raft-up location for our Friday-Sunday party, then motor 12 miles back home again.


Good, I think you made the right decision. I agree with John that 12 miles on one engine is OK. When my tranny broke down, I travelled over 40 miles on one at 1600 rpm with 4 docking s (including a Seaway lock) before I could find a place to have the tranny replaced. The tricky part is planning your docking in advance but your captain seems to have the necessary savvy.

Have fun at your regatta but bring a jacket.
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Barbie
Posted 1/7/2010 8:14 PM (#21614 - in reply to #21529)
Subject: Re: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

Posts: 584
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Home Port: Miami, Florida
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Our concern was never worrying about the engine that was running... these engines are work-horses and I think there is more stress on both engines running at 2600 rpm cruising speed than there is on one engine running at 1000 rpms.

Our concern was about the engine that was NOT running. Figuring that the prop would be turning from the water flow, we didn't want to hurt the shaft seals, or the transmission or the engine.

When we blew a transmission in the Bahamas last summer we cruised for 25 miles on one engine at 1200 rpms and didn't worry about anything because the engine with the blown transmission was frozen, so the prop couldn't turn, so there was nothing to worry about the shaft rotating or hurting the engine.

Also, we're not paranoid about a water pump suddenly failing 100%. That doesn't usually happen unless it's an impeller. But a leak is simply a "leak" when it's in a boat. Bt in a car a leak is a major issue because you quickly run out of water and antifreeze so a leaking pump is just about a total failure. But in a boat, it's just a leak that leaks ocean water, and there is plenty of ocean water so we won't run out of that, LOL... But we don't want it getting salt water on our engine so we're fixing it right away because of THAT, but not because we fear our engine will suddenly overheat because the pump is dripping 3 drips per second and will suddenly have a total failure. But that's not the only reason we want to fix it now.... we love our boat too much to not take perfect care of it so that it's always ready to take perfect care of us and all our fun recreational needs!
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DSobba
Posted 1/7/2010 11:00 PM (#21619 - in reply to #21529)
Subject: Re: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...


First Mate

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Barbie,
We had the same exact issue with the raw water pumps on our 411 with 380 QSB's and did exactly what you will be doing. We purchased a new pump (our's was from Depco) and I installed it on the starboard engine. I'm not a mechanic and hate working on engines but this was pretty easy. There are 2 hoses to remove and the bolts that hold the pump to the engine. One thing we did was use a shop-vac when removing the hoses to suck up the sea water left over in the hoses. (Also, don't forget to close the seacocks).

We then took the old pump and had it rebuilt. The minor repair kit was all we needed as it has the new seals and new bearings if I remember correctly. You will need the major repair kit if the shaft has been damaged. I would be surprised if this is the case as it does not sound like it has been leaking all that long. The rebuild process is pretty straight forward and should not take 5 hours. I believe the guy who rebuilt ours had a max of 2 hours if that.

Once the old pump was rebuilt we took that one and swapped it out on the port engine. I will admit, I'm not the smallest of guys so found a buddy who was pretty small and he was able to climb to the outboard side of the port engine and change it out.

Good luck with all of it. I know I felt much better once I had changed both pumps since the starboard pump was leaking pretty bad and the port was on its way.
Danny
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John V
Posted 1/8/2010 5:35 AM (#21621 - in reply to #21593)
Subject: Re: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

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CaptainTraciDiane - 1/7/2010 8:55 AM

This is great information about the SeaMax pumps. I will have to watch and see when the pumps are available for my 425 QSB engines. Would you advise preventively switching out the pumps? Maybe combine with other work being done? I love my boat, but I pay the mechanic to fix it, I just don't have the time. I would definitely watch and see how its done for an emergency and keep the original pumps as spares.


I did a preventative switch of sorts with my pumps. As previously mentioned, Cummins replaced the blown pump under warranty. After that I bought 2 Seamax pumps and had them installed. I kept one of the old Cummins as a backup and sold the other one on ebay.

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Barbie
Posted 2/10/2010 12:42 PM (#22639 - in reply to #21529)
Subject: RE: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

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Okay, here is the final outcome of our water pump situation.

The company that we originally ordered the pump from, JobbersInc.com, made a mistake and couldn't provide the pump even though we emailed them our engine serial number, model HP and pump model too! So they returned our money order and we bought a new pump from http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page85.html for $700 plus shipping, (thanks for the tip SoaringEagle, Curt)

The pump arrived without O-Rings so we had to order those from Cummins for $24 including shipping, (rip off).

My captain made the pump swap yesterday, taking about 4 hours for the entire procedure. He says he had to explore and experiment with several things to figure out how to even be able to access certain bolts to remove them.

Now that he's done it once, the says thinks he can do the entire process in less than 2 hours the next time, now that he knows how to do it.

So for the benefit of anyone having to make the swap themselves, here are photos with step-by-step details on what to do and in what order.  Sorry that we don't have photos of each step of the process.

You won't need all these tools, but you'll need a bunch of them, LOL...  There is the old and new pump in the top of the photo.



Here is the front of the portside engine. The pump is located at the very top of the portside of the engine, shown in the top right of this photo.

The belt tightener is the pulley to the left of the water pump.  Loosen the 4 bolts that hold it into position, including the front bolt on the pulley itself.  This will let you remove the V-belt.

Then remove the 4 bolts on the front of the water pump pulley, and remove the pulley.

Then remove the inlet hose located on the bottom of the pump shown in bottom of photo below.

Then remove the outlet hose located on the top of the pump, shown in photo below.

Then remove the outlet fitting on the top of the pump, that the hose is connected to by removing the 4 bolts that are above the impeller access plate, shown in the photo below.

Then remove 4 bolts from the front of the pump that hold it into place.  These 4 bolts were previously hidden by the belt pulley, but after removing the pulley, they are easily accessable but we didn't take a photo of it.

 

Then rotate pump to align the bolt flanges up with the openings and wiggle it out of place and remove it.

Once removed, notice the angle of the inlet hose fitting.  Remove inlet hose fitting from the old pump and install it on the new pump at the exact same angle as it was installed on the old pump.  (Don't forget the O-Ring).

Wiggle new pump back into position and bolt into place to the front mounting plate.

Connect inlet water hose to fitting on bottom of pump. (now you see why it was important to pay attention to the proper angle of the inlet fitting.  Otherwise you'd have to loosen bolts under the pump to rotate it into proper position which is hard to do once the pump is bolted into place.

Loosely connect outlet water hose fitting on top of pump.  Swivel fitting to align to proper angle for water hose, then tighten into place.  Then connect hose to outlet fitting.

Bolt pulley onto front of water pump.

Put belt around engine pulley, pump pulley and belt tightener pulley.

Adjust belt tightness and tighten all bolts.  Be carefule not to over-tighten belt to avoid premature belt or pump shaft damage.

You're done...

Hose engine off with fresh water garden hose, clean up engine, dry off, then start engine, cross your fingers and check for leaks.  If nothing leaks, then spray with corrosion before bolting plastic belt covers into place.

Then as my captain said to me, "Come bask in the glory of my new pump" LOL...

As an added protection, and because my captain is extra paranoid about these things, he left the plastic cover off until we can run the engine for at least an hour or two on a weekend trip, and then inspect the pump again to assure no leakes.



Edited by Barbie 2/11/2010 6:40 AM
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circaburns
Posted 2/10/2010 6:17 PM (#22650 - in reply to #21529)
Subject: Re: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

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Home Port: Fremantle
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As usual outstanding pictorial Barbie... By the looks of the rust buildup the leak seems to have been reasonable chronic. Good you changed it when you did. My starboard engine is now on it's third pump after 180+ hours. I am hoping the problem is just two bad pumps, but I have a little suspicion the problem is probably to do with the pulley axle alignments. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.
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Barbie
Posted 2/10/2010 6:52 PM (#22652 - in reply to #21529)
Subject: Re: Raw Water Pump Is Lea...




Admiral

Posts: 584
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Home Port: Miami, Florida
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Thank you Robert. Posting that update took me as long to do as it took my captain to install the new water pump, and that was even after he wrote the installation instructions, and then all I had to do was post it with the pictures, and get all the credit for it, LOL...

Yes we were disappointed by all the rust too. But we've cleaned it up a lot, hosed it all down with a garden hose, then dried it off and sprayed it with corosion block and stuff. Spray cleaned the entire bilge and areas under both engines and put new oil pad diapers under the engines from front to back. That's how we spot early warnings of troubles is keeping nice, clean, white diaper pads under all engines and inspecting them regularly.

My captain asks because your pumps are wearing out quickly, (wow, 3 pumps in 180 hours!!!) is your belt too tight? How are your belts wearing? The alignment doesn't sound quite right to my captain...
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